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Thread: Blackwing Descent Strategy Notepad

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vikrum View Post
    Nef P3 Add Kiting.

    So I spoke with Kain briefly this morning and I am pretty sure he mentioned this video. 10 Man Nef - Warrior Tank - Worgen Druid PoV.

    He mentioned having Nef in the center and the add tank kite them around the big circle on the outside. However watching that video I didn't really gather that.

    Now watching this video -- Paladin Tank PoV - 25 man - Nef in the center, kite adds around the outside, seemed to be exactly what Kain was talking about and might I add this looks much simpler.

    Thoughts?
    Heh, I think the reason Kain's video didn't makes sense was because that wasn't the right link. Quite certain Kain meant to link this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8npXm3_DMjU&hd=1); Phase 3 starts at about 5:00. Clearly the key is knowing when to start moving just before the Bolt cast, and also when actually moving to strafe sideways to maximize speed. Otherwise, if movement is relatively small between Bolts, the fire doesn't spread fast enough and there seems to be plenty of room to kite for a while.

    Also, a key thing for healers to remember is that only the two tanks are every in danger in this fight, and healing the other 8 people should be all about efficiency, and just ensuring they're topped off before the next Electrocute.

  2. #22
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    i think its worth a shot. i have the tools to keep him safe for a couple seconds that he may be out of los, based on the attempts we had last night the damage on his was not so severe as to require spamming and a missed gcd became a death. its also possible that i may be able to go on the outside of the pillar rather than the inside, depending on how the fire goes down.

    this is all of course only possible if they dont go giant crazy sized and ass rape him. then it doesnt matter if im out of los or sitting on his shoulder, it kinda sucks and i cant keep him alive.
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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulldam View Post
    Heh, I think the reason Kain's video didn't makes sense was because that wasn't the right link. Quite certain Kain meant to link this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8npXm3_DMjU&hd=1); Phase 3 starts at about 5:00. Clearly the key is knowing when to start moving just before the Bolt cast, and also when actually moving to strafe sideways to maximize speed. Otherwise, if movement is relatively small between Bolts, the fire doesn't spread fast enough and there seems to be plenty of room to kite for a while.

    Also, a key thing for healers to remember is that only the two tanks are every in danger in this fight, and healing the other 8 people should be all about efficiency, and just ensuring they're topped off before the next Electrocute.
    No, no, Kain never provided me with a link. He just said Worgen Druid PoV, 10 man, Warrior tank. And I came across that one lol. I will watch that video now though to get a better understanding.

    Since we only have one boss tonight I am going to try out BigWigs as opposed to DBM. Supposedly BW has the timing on the shadowbolts perfectly and I'll know exactly when to move.

  4. #24

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    Notes for Heroic: Chimaeron:

    Given that this fight is primarily about handling mechanics (and therefore a lot of the 'gear requirements' can be ignored), I think this is a great fight to focus on early for Heroic progression. Having look through a few logs, it appears there are two primary changes and additions to this fight on Heroic.

    1. Chimaeron continues to attack the tanks as normal during the Feud phase, while the raid is stacked and soaking Caustic Slime (click here for the confusing log to show the timing).

    This has a few implications, but primarily it means that we have to deal with the application of Break stacks during our normal Feud downtime, as well as melee and Double Attacks while the system (and thus death prevention) is offline.

    I think I've come up with the proper timing for how that should work, outlined in this Google doc spreadsheet, but below is a snippet:


    The rest is just a repeat, where the System Offline occurs every 90 seconds, but Vikrum's Break stack has dropped before that occurs (60 sec after the #2 stack was applied). Since the melee damage and more importantly Double-Attacks still happen during System Offline, Vikrum will taunt and take over all tanking once we enter System Offline, while the rest of the raid stacks up to soak Caustic Slime. In this case, I suspect it's safer to have Vikrum stay away from the raid so he doesn't get hit by any extraneous Caustic Slime damage that could potentially drop his health slightly too low before a Double-Attack. Moreover, because he'll have 2 stacks of Break for the second Double-Attack before the System Online occurs, we'll definitely need a cooldown on him for those double-attacks, and given that we need 2 CDs every 90 seconds, we'll have to work out a reliable system.

    In the event that the above timing doesn't work for whatever reason (can't soak double-attack during Offline mode with 1+ Break stacks, for example), then the only other option is a 3-tank setup, keeping in mind all that is required is for Bauser to stay DPSing but in Blood Presence or what not to keep threat, and to essentially "tank" the majority of the fight, except that Vikrum taunts all Double-Attacks. This then allows us to make sure Vik never has Break stacks when getting hit by Double-Attack, specifically during System Offline mode. Since I'm the only other player getting Break, I'll only take single-attack hits during Offline mode, which should be manageable with cooldowns at 1 or 2 Break stacks.

    We'll have to wait and see exactly how it works out, but if one method doesn't work, I'm fairly confident the other will.

    2. During the final phase, Nefarian joins the fight by casting Mocking Shadows on the raid every second until the fight ends. (Note: The tooltip lies, the damage is really 2k a sec in 10-man).

    The debuff is clearly intended to cut the survival time of all non-tanks by half, from two hits (a 10k+ hit down to 1 HP, then a killing blow) to one hit (a 10k+ hit down to 1 HP, then an immediate shadow tick). Therefore, all forms of absorb will be very useful for this final phase (Priest shields, shadow protection potions, mana shield, warlock shield, etc.), but the timing is critical. Tanks will eventually die, and at that point, everyone must watch Chimaeron's target closely. If he targets you, immediately use your absorb ability (IF it doesn't absorb physical damage of course), which will then allow the Mocking Shadows tick to not kill you and you should be able to stay alive long enough for Chimaeron's next melee swing, which is the key.

    Of course because of this, we also want to precisely time when we push Chimaeron into the last phase. This seems to actually occur at 21% health rather than 25% or 20%, so we should practice getting him to ~23% (stopping DoTs earlier), then waiting for the next Feud (which is simultaneously when a Massacre happens) then dropping all our AE heals and pushing him into the Phase. Since it's Heroic, as mentioned above, he barely spends any time actually Feuding, but it is about ~5-6 seconds, which is damage-free time right after the Massacre but before Caustic Slime starts that we can heal up and push the phase.

    Lastly just as an aside idea, anyone know if the heal debuff from Phase 3 prevents resurrection heals? That is, if you res or someone resses you, do you come back at the normal HP level of the ability or at 1 HP? If not 1 HP, doing simultaneous shaman-pop/druid res/soulstone would be helpful and worth trying to buy us another potential ~15-30 seconds.

  5. #25

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    According to WoL there is a slightly higher % kill rate on Chimaeron than Halfus. I agree that either or is a great place to start our heroic endevaors. I had already done a good bit of reading up on both of these fights well before we killed Nef just for curiosity sake. I found this detailed write up. I was going to just pick and choose some nuggests out of here but I thought "well maybe someone will catch something I missed." So I think it's best for us to get more eyes on it.

    I would like to point out that this is not the strategy VI will be using. We will be going with what Kull has laid out. Again though I think this is great for us to be able to read a few of the ins and outs before we get there. Also I am trying to find an answer to your Resurrection question Kull.

    Main differences:
    The feud cast is actually canceled by Nefarion who is standing on the cage and commands Chimaeron to stop feuding thus continuing his normal moves. I'm going to continue to call this phase "Feud Phase" for simplicity though.
    A raid shadow aura for ~2k a tick from 20% to 0.
    At 20% the bosses attacks are all Double Attacks.

    Disclamer: IMO This isn't the best strat but it's the one we used with the tanks we had. Yes this did eventually result in a kill.

    Tips: Feud NEVER follows the First massacre, but will on either the second or third.
    Each Feud phase is roughly 30 sec. Cycles of Feud and normal phases are Randomly either 60 or 90 sec total.
    Break debuff lasts 1 min and cannot be removed except by death.

    Tanks: Prot Pally (me), Bear
    Heals: Shaman, Pally, Holy Priest
    Dps: Unholy DK, Enhance, SPriest, Boomkin, Hunter (survival?)

    The collapse point for the group for feud is on a healer in melee range of the boss. The tanks can stand anywhere around the boss away from this spot. The tanks can stack if they wish but don't have to. However, the feud tank stays on his spot out of the group so as to not take slime damage while the primary (Break stack) tank stacks with the group during feud. For us the Bear acts as primary tank getting his 4 Break stacks and tanking for all non Feud sections. I taunt and eat all Double Attacks. When Feud starts casting I will have the boss and use CDs through the feud phase. After the end of feud massacre the primary tank resumes tanking and the whole cycle continues. One important thing to note here is that the feud/double attack tank will receive 2 Break stacks during feud making the next sequence of double attacks rather pointy.

    Since the feud/nonfeud cycle timer is randomly 60 or 90 seconds you can come across some problems using this method. If it's 60 sec then the feud/double tank will go into the next feud with his 2 break stacks with 30 sec left (ouch) and if he survives, exit the phase with 4. Our contingency for this (after surviving the feud and finishing with 4 stacks) was to have me Battle rezzed after taunting, turning and dying on the next double attack. NOT the next normal attack or else the primary tank will be faced with that incoming double while I'm down. In addition to that nonsense your 3 min alternating CDs will get all desynced and leave you with only outside CDs that tend not to offer much. Frankly if you get multiple and or back to back 60 cycles, GG try next attempt.

    However, if it's 90 sec cycles then I never had more then 2 Breaks. I had no problem doing AD on one feud then GoAK on the second and have AD ready for the next etc. DP on all of them as well because it will always be up for both 60 and 90 sec cycles. I tended to chain rather then stack any effects. Also if you're going to get gibbed it's going to be right after massacre so AD/GoAK first, then DP.

    With luck our kill of course had all 90 sec cycles and my CDs each feud went like so: 1-AD/DP 2-GoAK/DP 3-AD/DP 4-Guardian Spirit/DP
    This leaves GoAK, on use mastery trinket, and agi pot for ~3% dodge up for P2 "live as long as you can" time.

    Since all P2 attacks are double attacks and the 2k dot will kill a player who manages to survive any double attacks with 1hp, the buff of the robot in P2 is meaningless. In fact we found it simplest to actually push into P2 during the start of feud because massacre is far away, slime bolts don't come for about the first 10 or 15 sec and feud is when we top off the group anyhow. We also ran into some transitions outside of feud when people are spread and Chimaeron would phase but throw out his last slime bolts anyway. This effectively kills multiple people right off because of the addition of Nef's shadow aura ticks and near zero healing. He would also sometimes decide to finish the massacre cast instead of stopping on transition as well.

    A comment on our strat and fight:
    Obviously the major flaw is a real dependance on getting those 90 sec cycles as much as possible. On top of hoping you always block when you really need during feud and double attack and the RNG of survival in P2. Savage Defence is a poor substitute for scaling block however, and the Bear just could not handle the feud tanking at all. IMO It's much more of a class check then gear or healer check.

    An alternate strategy involves using a ret pally or dps DK serve as the Primay tank. Anyone who can taunt can serve the role as Primary tank for P1. This would let you use your real tanks to alternate cycles of double attacks and feuds (in that order), keeping Break stacks on each low. If you were to try this alternate strat of DPS-primary tank and 2 tank specced off tanks then use pallys or warriors who should also do well.

    Keeping the 'anyone who can taunt can tank' idea in mind, have healers who are able taunt do so near P2. They don't even have to tank one hit if you don't want. They just need to rise above dps on threat table to buy more time. Depending on dps and phase timing you could also have that healer tank long enough to have the break stacks to drop off the original Primary tank giving him more P2 survival value.

    More tips/bloopers:
    Bring all the Evasion, Deterrence, Dispersion etc. you can get.
    Turn pet Growls ON. Can buy one more meat shield each.
    Don't use Unholy frenzy ever. It can kill you.
    Make sure locks and healers coordinate life taps. Best during feud phase.
    Would recommend having mages who are fire Not spec Cauterize. Game screws it up and procs it on massacre etc.
    Don't bother running around in P2 to buy time. With a 5 sec swing he will catch up long before he tries to attack. Any movement is a waste of dps. Kiting out the room is silly and won't work either. IDK if you'll get ported back but you'll range everyone else anyway.
    WoG instantly after massacre is awesome. Getting an Eternal Glory proc even more so. I had for a night of attempts glyphed and tanked with Insight, but after a 200k wipe I decided to go back to Truth. In retrospect that extra damage is only meaningful after transition so w/e. Pushing P2 and enrage weren't the problem.

  6. #26

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    Heroic - Chimaeron notes. I think this strategy sounds really solid. This was typed up by a 25 man tank, doing the fight on 25 man. But I don't see how this would differ in 10 man. They use 2 tanks in either raid.

    While having a dps tank is fine, i see no reason to do so as it is not necessary.

    As ive mentioned before i havnt done this on 10man, but every kill we have done in 25man hc (including our world first) was done with 2 proper tanks, and noone else tanking at all (think some guilds killed it with using hunter pets tanking during Feud/eating dubbleattacks).
    And this was before a massacre cleared dubbleattacks.
    Yes, we had "only" 2 tanks tanking.
    The way to do it is to have your first tank stack up Breaks, while the other tank doesnt take any applications of break, but he taunts the boss and "soaks" the dubbleattacks.
    This means that when the first Feud is coming, the 2nd tank wont have any Break stacks, so he starts tanking during Feud (important for your healers attention that they know who to top asap).
    He then continues to tank the whole Feud by himself, using a strong CD for the dubbleattack right after his first application of break.
    The next massacre hits, and he continues tanking.
    At the point when the next dubbleattack comes, the first tank will still have his debuffs so he cannot taunt, a minor CD on the current tank (since he should have 2 Breaks during this dubbleattack).
    By the time of the next Break/dubbleattack, the first tank should have his debuffs ran out, so he starts soaking dubbleattacks.
    During the next Feud, the tank who just soaked the dubbleattacks starts tanking, and just like before he gets topped fast, and uses a strong CD for the dubbleattack (since you have to survive both hits, not just one like when the bot is up).
    We used priests guardian/painsupp together with small CDs to survive the first dubbleattack right after massacre on our firstkill, as that is not the case anymore Tanks can now be selfsufficient with their own 3min CDs, they will be up again for the next time your Feud phase comes.
    This however means that one of your tanks will most likely enter the last phase with 4xBreak, and will go down pretty fast, however if your lucky the other tank will have none, and could even have his CDs up to survive longer.

    I think this tactic has been mentioned before in eather this or the other Chimaeron topics.

  7. #27

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    Few notes for Heroic: Chimaeron:

    First, found out something very interesting that should make things a lot easier to determine who is above/below the 10k threshold -- turns out every time someone drops below 10k, the fight mechanics themselves add an actual buff to the player called "Low Health" (see: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/5jqla...2Low+Health%22)

    So, healers should just add that Buff to their Grid, make it prominent, and that should help a lot! Pretty handy, I had no idea!

    Second, healers (and really all Grid users) should have this: http://www.wowace.com/addons/grid-st...es/43-40000-2/ As you can imagine, it allows you to show raid icons as a status on Grid, which will be very useful for Chimaeron and certainly in the future as well.

    Third, I have tried it out yet in-game, but this sounds like a very useful Grid module: GridStatusEmphasize I'd highly suggest grabbing it to mess with, as it sounds like it can be used to emphasize grid boxes for various events (such as the aforementioned auras, health, icons, etc.)

    As for actual tactics, we're pretty close and just new a few minor tweaks. One thing we really need to pay careful attention to is this: After Massacre, the first Caustic Slime is not cast for 15 seconds. (See this log segment for examples)

    The second thing worth noting is that within those 15 seconds, Chimaeron will swing 2-3 times on the current tank (see post-final Massacre in this log segment). Often, when trying to be proactive, in both normal and our heroic attempts, when we are pushing to heal up after that last Massacre before Mortality, I'll take one hit then get immediately fully healed by Lay on Hands, only to be hit by another attack before Mortality actually occurs.

    Therefore, I think we can use that 15 second window to really prepare for entering the final Mortality phase.

    1. Once we stop DPS (early), we allow one or two non-DoT people to continue attacking to get him down to 23%. Note: For this to work, ALL passive DoTs/pets need to be set at rest (totems as well).

    2. We wait for our next Feud/Massacre combo, blow all our AE heals with the entire raid stacked (tanks too this time) with single-target healing focus on me (or Vik, whichever is the Break tank for this Feud). Just as that second melee swing is about to hit (around the 8-9 second mark after Massacre), we Lust and push Chimaeron over.

    3. If the second melee hit landed on the tank, Lay on Hands should be used immediately, and the Mortality phase should begin before those final ~5 seconds of the next melee hit and of course the Caustic Slime.

    4. As an aside to the above, once Massacre has hit, once Ranged DPS are healed to FULL HP, they should each move toward assigned corners of the room -- not all the way in the corner so as to have range problems, but far enough that when they get agro, it will take a few seconds for Chimaeron to reach them.

    5. As discussed before, we should Salvation Bauser to drop his threat below the two primary tanks, so he can DPS slightly longer than usual.

    6. Also, it may be worth having Vikrum as the initial tank going into the final phase, even if I am next on the Break order, so that I can use Tranquility during the AE heal burst. It's not a huge spell, but it's about 150k in total, so not terrible either, and anything that heals us up faster is a benefit I think.

    I also think it may be worthwhile (for sanity's sake) to always alternate the Feud tank each time we begin a Feud, that way there's no confusion about which tank is taking first hits and we don't have to worry (as much) about whether it's a 30 sec or 60 sec Feud delay. We can then make a pretty safe rule about double-attack taunting during Feud to say: Let the Feud tank soak all the hits of the Feud. This means healers will (on average) have to heal tanks less during Feud, AND the Double-Attack will never be soaked by a 2-Break tank.

    The Feud tank should have two cooldowns for this phase: A weaker one to start for the initial hit and Break application to let healers catch up, and then strong or anti-death one for the Double-Attack, since a Break + Double-Attack can kill. If timed well, that cooldown for Double-Attack should carry over into the final melee swing before Feud ends.

    Lastly, has anyone ever tested to confirm if absorbs are or are not affected by the 99% healing reduction of Mortality? If not, it would definitely be worth having Bunny spam shields on random DPS, even if it only buys another 5 seconds or whatnot before death to the AE aura. Likewise, I assume Kain is using his Aura Mastery during that phase, so the earlier in the phase the better really.

    That's all I got for now.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulldam View Post
    Few notes for Heroic: Chimaeron:

    4. As an aside to the above, once Massacre has hit, once Ranged DPS are healed to FULL HP, they should each move toward assigned corners of the room -- not all the way in the corner so as to have range problems, but far enough that when they get agro, it will take a few seconds for Chimaeron to reach them.
    With Chimaeron's insanely slow swing timer I'd think moving would be a net damage loss. Obviously we haven't seen Chim in his Nikes during the last phase but I can't imagine it would take him longer than 5 seconds to get to anywhere in the room. Instead of moving around the room having me taunt, coupled with a salvation for Bauser could possibly buy us that extra time/dps we need. I'm ashamed to admit it but I am completely useless in the last phase, (Buff holy dps IMO :P) so I don't mind being Chim's bitch if it means we win.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kainhighwind View Post
    With Chimaeron's insanely slow swing timer I'd think moving would be a net damage loss. Obviously we haven't seen Chim in his Nikes during the last phase but I can't imagine it would take him longer than 5 seconds to get to anywhere in the room. Instead of moving around the room having me taunt, coupled with a salvation for Bauser could possibly buy us that extra time/dps we need. I'm ashamed to admit it but I am completely useless in the last phase, (Buff holy dps IMO :P) so I don't mind being Chim's bitch if it means we win.
    That's a good point Kain, you're right I'm certain it's not a 5 second window to cross the room for him from what I've watched, so forget that strat, we'll stay stacked.

  10. #30

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    Notes for Heroic: Chimaeron:

    I think it's worth discussing how we might change our strategy for this to a two-tank setup with Vikrum and Bauser. Unfortunately due to the anti-heal debuff from Break, I suspect Bauser's mastery will be somewhat useless when he has Break stacks. That said, I don't know very much about DK tanks I'll admit, but a few things do stand out that would be very helpful on this fight, namely: Bone Shield and Dancing Rune Weapon.

    Bone Shield is obviously great in a fight where the hits are so few and far between, meaning with natural avoidance, well over half the hits should be mitigated by 20%, which is far more than I can get with my 60 second Barkskin cooldown (which at best gets two hits every 60 sec). As for Dancing Rune Weapon, providing 20% Parry on a 1.5 minute cooldown is extremely powerful, and only in the worst case scenario (back-to-back 30 sec Feuds) would it not be available for each Feud phase. Lastly, while not quite as crazy powerful as the others, Will of the Necropolis will obviously soak 25% of the next hit (if tanking) every 45 sec, and allow two blood runes every 45 sec as well.

    Therefore, I think it's worth trying a strictly two-tank setup, which basically means something similar to that (terribly written) second quote strat Vik posted: Break tank as normal until Feud, other tank grabs and holds going into the normal phase. Uses strong cooldown during double-attack of Feud. Will need a minor cooldown for the next double-attack after Feud ends, at which point other tank will grab double-attacks, and the roles reverse next Feud.

    Point being, I think this will let us drop Chimaeron this week with our current raid from last night.

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