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Thread: Dragon Soul Notepod

  1. #11

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    More for Heroic: Yor'sahj:

    I don't know how relevant this will turn out to be, but trying to get a bit more info on how Purple/Deep Corruption ooze mechanics work, and from what I can tell looking through a few logs and from seeing it in action a few times, it seems to be only direct, non-HoT heals that trigger stacks.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-y5z74vq2o526wqt9/xe/?s=7111&e=7277&x=(spell%3D%22Deep+Corruption%22+or+fulltype%3DSPE LL_HEAL+or+type%3DTYPE_HEAL)+and+targetname%3D%22R aviolee%22&page=2

    This is one example, but I'll snip out the important bits (trust me that it his healing on this warlock that triggers the AE when it fades from him, as damage was dealt by the Warlock himself):

    Code:
    [23:01:16.984] Raviolee afflicted by Deep Corruption from Yor'sahj the Unsleeping
    [23:01:18.159] Raviolee Fel Armor Raviolee +169
    [23:01:18.969] Roastpig Vampiric Embrace Raviolee +140
    [23:01:18.969] Raviolee Fel Armor Raviolee +242
    [23:01:19.327] Jessicadruid Rejuvenation Raviolee +5426
    [23:01:19.372] Roastpig Vampiric Embrace Raviolee +1839
    [23:01:20.967] Jessicadruid Healing Touch Raviolee +28162
    [23:01:21.383]  Oopsrofl Divine Light Raviolee +31468
    [23:01:22.569] Juggernott Holy Shock Raviolee +8509
    [23:01:23.411] Juggernott Holy Shock Raviolee +8517
    [23:01:24.601]  Oopsrofl Divine Flame Raviolee +2912
    [23:01:25.400] Jessicadruid Healing Touch Raviolee +26552
    [23:01:26.981] Yor'sahj the Unsleeping's Deep Corruption fades from Raviolee
    I left out a lot of extra stuff, but essentially I see 5 direct, non-hot heals between the time of gaining Deep Corruption and when it fades (explodes): Healing Touch, Divine Light, Holy Shock, Holy Shock, and Healing Touch. The explosion triggers very shortly after that final Healing Touch, and not anywhere before it, in spite of numerous heals from other sources (Rejuv, Vamp Emp, Fel Armor, Divine Flame, etc). In essence, this warrants testing, but it may be possible that AoE Heals and HoTs will be immune to these effects, and allow us to kill off a more damage-oriented ooze, leaving combinations like Blue+Purple+Black or Blue+Purple+Red, which shouldn't require healing outside of AoE and HoTs in most cases.

    Just some food for thought and stuff to test I guess.

  2. #12

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    I believe Yor'sahj values have been dramatically increased since PTR. Health is now as follows:
    Yor'sahj: 89.6 M
    Mana Void: 2.4 M
    Ooze: ~2 M
    Black Adds: 800k

    After spending far more time than I should have reading Dungeons & Raids forums, I've scooped up a bit more information about the boss.
    >Purple can be left up every time, HoTs don't trigger it although Tranquility will.
    >1 tank 2 healers needed to beat the dps check
    >If dps can be spared, leave one on Yor'sahj while the raid goes to kill the ooze
    >AoE adds during ooze transition

    From a post on the forums:

    2 Heals 1 tank. No exception.
    Combos to aim for:
    Purple Yellow black: Heavy raid damage cycle cooldowns, use lust if no cds, practice being able to kill the 2nd sets of adds while the glob is up.
    Purple + Blue + X: Ok if you get purple and Blue you can do whatever the hell you want for X, I prefer Black > Green > Red > Yellow. All are fine.
    Another addition to Blue + Purple + X
    X= black= run to the mana void with whole raid when it spawns for aoe cleaves.
    X= green= spread out
    x= red = melee cannot go out to kill blue without cloak, ams. They will get one shot if the orb is even a little far.
    If Green and Red are both up you MUST always kill green.
    Those rules cover all combos GL.
    EDIT: oh ya we also keep 2 people DPSing on boss while we kill globs unless we have to kill a set of adds with the glob we only put 1.
    A compilation of Ooze combinations:


    B-Blue
    Bl-Black

    Combination:
    B-P-Bl-R - Kill Red - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb.
    B-P-Bl-Y - Kill Yellow - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb.
    B-P-Bl-G - Kill Green - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb.
    B-P-R-G - Kill Green - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb. Stack, ranged kill orb.
    B-P-R-Y - Kill Yellow - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb. Stack, ranged kill orb.
    B-P-G-Y - Kill Yellow - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb. Spread, ranged kill orb.
    B-Bl-R-Y - Kill Yellow - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb. Stack, ranged kill orb.
    B-Bl-G-Y - Kill Yellow - Healing debuff w/ adds and orb. Spread, ranged kill orb.

    Bl-Y-P-G - Kill Green - Heavy raid damage cycle cooldowns, use lust if no cds, practice being able to kill the 2nd sets of adds while the glob is up.
    Bl-Y-P-R - Kill Red - Heavy raid damage cycle cooldowns, use lust if no cds, practice being able to kill the 2nd sets of adds while the glob is up.

    B-Bl-R-G - Kill Green - Stack, kill adds; ranged kill orb.
    B-Y-R-G - Kill Green - Stack, ranged kill orb.
    P-Bl-R-G - Kill Green - Stack, kill adds; manage healing debuff with damage
    P-Y-R-G - Kill Green - Stack, manage healing debuff with damage
    Last edited by Holycowtank; 12-07-2011 at 05:51 PM. Reason: More information

  3. #13

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    More for Heroic: Yor'sahj:

    After our experiences tonight and looking much more deeply at logs, it seems clear the damage values from certain Ooze buffs are fairly significant, and a lot stronger than we envisioned. Details can be seen here if you care, but the basic info is that each effect adds a specific average incoming DPS value to the raid:


    In particular I'm surprised at the values from Yellow and Green; for some reason I didn't realize Yellow did so much damage (thinking it didn't hit the entire raid) and also assumed Green to be much higher even when spread. Also interesting to see how fairly low the damage overall from Black is, but the important factor of Black is that the Forgotten One adds are not dealing consistent, stable damage since they will attack people at will, and often cannot be controlled, leading to fairly high spike damage on a single individual.

    More importantly is the DPS requirement, which is obviously very high. With the current HP values, doing our previous strategy, we'd be looking at the following required DPS to beat Berserk:

    (((((4/6)*2.2)+((5/6)*4.245))+2.49)/75+89.5/600)*1000000 = 249,089 RDPS

    We only really see numbers like that with 1 tank, 2 heal for nearly completely stationary fights like H:Baleroc. The other factor is a fairly obvious one: Every time we let Blue or Black Ooze go, we're creating extra mobs we have to kill and thus higher DPS requirements. Therefore, the strategy that seems the most reasonable at this point is: Always kill Black Ooze and entirely prevent Forgotten One spawns.

    This would change our DPS requirement to now be:

    ((((4/6)*2.2)+2.49)/75+89.5/600)*1000000 = 201,922 RDPS

    Obviously that's a huge difference, as it cuts out on five 849k HP adds every 75 seconds essentially. This in turn would also allow us to add another important factor: Dougall as a third healer.

    To deal with the Purple healing debuff, we know from logs the buff applies every 25 seconds, after which time it resets (seemingly) and immediately reapplies the debuff again, meaning we can cast one "stack-based" heal per person every 6.25 seconds on average. If we split up the raid into three even groups of three people each excluding the main tank, and assign each trio to a healer, this means each healer can cast a stack-based heal basically every 2.1 seconds, or for easier calculation and to be safe, we can round it down to 2 even. Therefore, we can cast 2 Stack-Based Heals Per Second, or 2 SBHPS.

    This means that ignoring all other heals that don't apply stacks, each healer should utilize their highest SBHPS ability for all healing whenever possible. For me that is Swiftmend (if raid stacked), Rejuv (if no overheal), and then Healing Touch. For Kain I suspect it's Divine Light and Dougall Greater Heal. At any rate, knowing we can use 2 SBHPS, each healer should be able to estimate what his rotation might be in a 25-second situation on 3 non-tank targets.

    This doesn't account for tank healing time however, so another way to split it up might be:

    Kain: Heals 4 specific people from Group 1 (excluding the tank)
    Kull: Heals 4 specific people from Group 2 (excluding Doug)
    Doug: Heals himself and the tank exclusively with Beacon support from Kain


    Perhaps the balance is off there, depending on the colors we have, as I don't really know what the damage intake will be like for our tank if we have something like Yellow + Green at the same time.

    Anyway, for now, I think the 4-4-2 split seems like the best possibility, with the option of altering to a 4-3-3 split (Kain 4, Doug 2+tank, Kull 3) if the balance is out of whack.

    Spawn Sets

    The last thing is just be clear, as mentioned in my previous post and once again verified, these are the only spawn sets we'll see in Heroic:


    If we always kill Black, except when not available in Row #4 where we instead kill the most damaging ability, Yellow, we get the following table of possibilities (sorted from most dangerous to least dangerous in my opinion):


    The top one of Yellow+Red+Green is obviously extremely damaging, but since we have 3 healers, no mana void, and no healing limitations from Purple, we can hopefully survive the damage. Yellow+Red will also be fairly brutal with the Purple active, but at least we can stack for effective Efflorescence. Green+Red should be easy enough without Purple. The final 3 shouldn't be any issue at all since we only have one actual damaging ability (Yellow or Green) while Purple is active, so assuming our Purple healing strategy works, that should be fine. Also note that Green+Blue+Purple are listed twice on purpose, because with a Black > Yellow kill order, we actually get that set 1 out of 3 times.

    That's it for now -- in spite of limited time, our short number of attempts last night really gave us a lot of useful information and I think we'll have a good shot at him on Sunday!

  4. #14

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    More SUPER FASCINATING NOTES for Heroic: Yor'sahj:

    Double-Spawn Forgotten Ones

    As if we needed more reason to focus on Black Oozes primarily, it seems that if you kill Forgotten One spawns too quickly, a second set will sometimes spawn during a single phase.

    Green Acidic Raid Targeting

    As far as I can tell, it seems this effect prefers to target ranged players. I can't tell if it's flagged as non-melee, or if it actually checks range from the boss. It would be worth testing, but either way this should mean we can allow our melee to clump on the tank when Green is active with Kain's semi-circle idea around the back side for casters/healers, giving us a tighter grouping when we get the deadly Red+Green combo.

    Mana Void

    If we can swing it, we could pull off a potentially slick method for dealing with Mana Voids -- since Mana Voids have no set lifespan and will only die if we kill them, on our first Mana Void spawn (or an early spawn if the first color combination proves too difficult), we can avoid killing the Mana Void and instead get it low health (10-20%, or 200-400k). For the initial mana loss from the first Mana Void, we all utilize personal mana cooldowns (Innervate, Divine Plea, Mana Hymn, Evocation, Lifetap -- and of course potions if needed) to allow us to keep DPSing and more importantly, healing. However, with Mana Void #1 now saved, we have our own raid-wide mana cooldown in the form of a mana battery for the next Mana Void spawn. Once Mana Void #2 spawns in X phases in the future, instead of being pressured by the near-instant mana loss and trying to find mana to recover somewhere, we just wait for Mana Void #2 to spawn and drain us down to zero within a few seconds, then we quickly kill Mana Void #1 who has been waiting patiently with our stored mana. Now we can quickly get back to healing and DPSing, while we let one or two individuals slowly get Mana Void #2 down to our low health threshold of 10-20% for the next round.

    Essentially, once we push through the mana loss from Void #1, for the rest of the fight Blue Ooze becomes completely negated (other than the slight and unavoidable DPS loss to the boss).

  5. #15

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    If we do attempt the mana battery strat we should check to see if the mana void can be Death Gripped, as it seems to like to float away from the boss. If the entire raid has to move to the mana void in order to take advantage of the "battery" we may not actually gain any DPS from this strat.

  6. #16

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZURH2w-5E

    This video shows the Mana Battery strat you described, Kull, but is unfortunately rather lacking in information.

  7. #17

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    I was looking through some Yor'sahj kills that have Black Oozes as their priority and I noticed that magical damage really is a HUGE portion of the total damage taken on this fight. This page shows 27.7M damage taken during a 9:33 minute fight. When physical damage is filtered out (school != 1), the total magic damage ends up being roughly 23M damage. That says 83% of ALL the damage on this fight is magic, therefore I suggest we actually use Prismatic Elixirs!! (please be gentle on me in your mind Kull)

    Using Prismatic Elixirs would bring the average resist numbers to 32.66%, up from 24.92% with just resistance aura, a 7.75% extra magic resit on average! It also has the added benefit of guaranteeing a minimum resist value of 20%, instead of having a small chance to only resist 10% of the damage taken. At 23M total magic damage the prismatic elixirs would average out to reducing the total damage by 1.78M damage, or 3100 incoming dps over a 9:30 minute fight.

    We obviously would lose some dps by not having the cauldron elixirs, however I can't think of an effective way to come up with those dps loss numbers. This will only become an issue if we are in fact hitting the zerk timer

    Overall being able to reduce the required healing output by 3100HPS with just a click of an elixir feels extremely strong. Each individual raid member can also help reduce the amount of healing by respecing to grab any magic damage reduction talents. I know Shamans have an extremely strong 12% reduction, druids have 6%, paladin's can glyph their Divine Protection, etc. I highly encourage everyone to take a look at their specs and see if there are any points you can spare for damage reduction. Less deaths = more progression!!!

  8. #18

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    Some good info there Kain and interesting just how much damage is actually magical! That said, I don't know about the actual numbers for you and Doug when healing, but according to the Resto Druid dataz, with an expected healing rotation able to last me the duration of the fight, losing a Flask drops my HPS by 1105 and my MP5 by 171. Even using a secondary elixir (+Mastery) doesn't completely alleviate the loss, as I still lose the MP5 and instead drop HPS by 542.

    So if you and Doug have remotely similar gains from Flasks, it's likely to be an overall loss in the HPS we put out, unless we double-elixir, and even then our gain may only be 1000-1500 Incoming Damage Per Second reduction. I'm not certain that our outgoing DPS loss for the lost flask buffs is worth that little gain in reduction.

    That said, I won't rule it out entirely, as the situation it would prove most useful is during Purple soaking situations where we may be limited to a certain number of casts we can make, and not our actual availability to put out a certain level of HPS. Thus if damage from a Purple+ combination proves just barely too high and our actual healing strategy is as good as we can make it, then I can see the extra resistance from elixirs helping out in those situations.

    Regarding people picking up magic damage reduction talents, that seems like a really good idea, provided people aren't losing DPS and are just trading some unnecessary utility.

  9. #19
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    That's a good point Kull...I respecced to Discipline and I think the loss of the flask would definitely affect me the most of any healer because managing heals and Evangelism stacks are both Int dependent. This is because all my heals to 5 stacks are also damaging so I need to try and stack as much Int as I can. My personal issue with the fight would be mana return. Since as Disc you have to give up a lot of regen, making up for it with Int stacking, I think the initial mana battery would really hurt. I might have to hymn, conc or pot, melee and torrent just to get back to a competitive Int level for atonement smiting again. I've even read that I'm suppose to reforge out of spirit for other stats but I don't think I'm ready to do that yet. Especially on a Heroic fight where we might be pushing the Berserk timer in a 10 man environment. Reforging out of spirit would seem a lot more manageable in 25 man.
    If you expect a kick in the balls and get a slap in the face, then it's a victory!


  10. #20

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    More for Heroic: Yor'sahj:

    Well now that we know stoplight combo is a bitch, been discussing a few ways to alleviate some issues and have come up with the latest strategy stuff. A few things to try in our modifications:
    • 2-heals (Doug doing Shadow again)
    • Use melee to help kill Mana Void whenever Red is not active (only 1/6 chance of Red+Blue)
    • Shamans pre-cast Healing Rains just before Purple ooze is absorbed
    • Don't kill Forgotten Ones until Yor'sahj's current buffs are under 25 seconds (half way through phase) to avoid second set of spawns
    • Modify Ooze order again
    Ooze Sets

    The big change we're going to try is since we're two-healing, we want to mitigate as much damage on the raid as possible (rather than lower damage output requirements with our previous order). This means our possible combinations will be:


    This means that for all Purple+ combinations, the only deadly combo is the one with two damaging colors together of Purple+Black+Red. Still, these are the two lowest incoming DPS colors of the bunch, so we should be able to keep up with the damage intake while still maintaining our Purple heal limit. Other than that, the biggest strain is the last combination only of Yellow+Black+Red, but without Purple everyone in the raid can help heal in addition to stuff like Tranq and Priest Tranq.

    Long story short, if we can survive Purple+Black+Red without needing too much healing and burn enough cooldowns for the (hopefully) one time we see Yellow+Black+Red, we should be able to meet the survival check. The problem is dealing with all the extra AE DPS we need to do in order to kill five extra adds on 2 out of 3 phases.


    In the event that the first setup doesn't work and we still hit Berserk, the next best option is the above, which trades a few fewer Black sets for a bit more dangerous incoming raid damage, namely giving us a Purple+Yellow+Red phase that could prove dangerous. For now, however, we'll assume the first setup will work if our DPS is high enough and go from there.

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